You guys definitely have the best BB podcast.
Have you noticed some of the language being used in Season 5- Walt says he’ll “get killed” if he sells the condo now, Hank says his wife would “murder” him if he said no to the job. Maybe a stretch, but Walt even says “sure as shootin’” to the mechanic- there are a lot of ways he could have said he was serious…

Per the loose thread on Walt’s hat: being that they’re in a discussion about Lydia, I assume she is the loose thread. Mike wants to kill her but Jesse & Walt overruling that and keeping her alive makes for the loose thread. She will come back to haunt them, or more likely, Mike. If they allow Mike to kill her like he wants (he already missed one opportunity – sexist – half measure) then a loose thread will be eliminated. Since they aren’t I feel like she will come back and cost them, specifically Mike.

A word on breakfast:

Walt Jr. became associated with breakfast because he has no subplots, so we are only going to see him during family together time, which given Heisenberg’s Batman-like night schedule is going to be breakfast more often than not.

But is the Villigan merely having a laugh with all the breakfast this season? I think he’s having fun, but there is a thematic justification. Prior to 51, Walter really did believe that everything could just go back to normal and he could just be a Leave It To Beaver type dad. So we’re getting more domestic scenes where we see how delusional Walter is.

Regarding Skyler in the pool:

It wasn’t about wanting a reprieve or just acting out of frustration…though she has plenty of frustration and was enjoying her reprieve.

Walking into the pool was laying the groundwork for Hank and Marie taking the kids. Like Hamlet, Skyler really is cracking up, but she’s also using the fact that she’s cracking up to get her needs met and her only need right now is to get her children away from Walter.

On going to Hank, there is a slight problem with that plan: Skyler doesn’t actually know anything. All she knows is that her husband brings home piles of cash that she agrees to launder. She’s got nothing to give up in court. The only illegal actions she specifically knows about…besides conspiracy…are hers.

The feds will have to develop the whole case against Walt on their own. The only leverage people in Skyler’s position typically have is their testimony. They use that to get all kinds of consideration from prosecutors. But all Skyler has is “my husband is Heisenberg.” She can’t bargain with that. Once the cat is out of the bag, the feds don’t need her which means they will bury her.

Good podcast! But,having said THAT, the wife and I differ with y’all on rooting for Walt, or even thinking that he is the lesser evil compared to Gus.
Take, for example, their respective treatment of Jesse: If not for Gus ,Jesse most likely would have imploded around the middle of last season. He was obviously headed for an early grave due to the misery he was suffering over Gale’s murder-done at Walter’s behest.
It was Gus’s manipulations that wound up forcing Jesse to ACT,and made him engage with the living once again- whether or not that was his (Gus’) intention.
Everybody (including us) is on team Jesse now. But if Gus hadn’t acted as he did;there would be no more Jesse to root for.
Walt’s willingness to put innocents in peril;his utter disregard for anyone’s rights/feelings except his own;and their comparative treatment of Jesse shows Gus as being much less evil than Walt.

Have to disagree with babrock Re: Walt versus Gus’ respective treatment of Jesse. If Gus had his way, Jesse would have been killed in Season 3 either by Mike (for being a junkie) or the rival drug dealers (for wanting to avenge Combo’s murder). It was Walt killing the two drug dealers in order to save Jesse’s life that set things into motion where Gus didn’t trust either Walt or Jesse and lead to Jesse having to kill Gale. Also I don’t recall Walt ever tasering Jesse and forcing him to cook at gunpoint which is what Gus ordered at the end of Season 4 even AFTER Jesse’s quick thinking in Mexico probably saved his life.

@thorleywinston:

You think that Gus forcing Jesse to cook at gunpoint outweighs Walter’s manipulation of Jesse to kill Gus after Walt poisoned Brock and pointed his finger at Gus? Or his manipulating Jesse into breaking up with Andrea? Or his passive killing of Jane?

@ Doris_DayTheEarthStoodStill

You think that Gus forcing Jesse to cook at gunpoint outweighs Walter?s manipulation of Jesse to kill Gus after Walt poisoned Brock and pointed his finger at Gus?

I think that the final scene in the superlab plus the fact that Gus was willing TWICE to either kill or allow Jesse to be killed in the previous season suggests that it?s likely that had Jesse not worked with Walter to kill Gus, Gus would have killed both of them. The fact that Gus had gotten to the point where he was literally handcuffing Jesse and forcing him to work at gunpoint tells me that Jesse?s days were numbered and even though I agree poisoning Brock was wrong, that action probably served to wake Jesse up to the fact that Gus was gunning for them both. In the final scene in Season 4 after Jesse tells Walter that Gus didn?t poison Brock, he agreed that Gus had to die. By all means, be angry at Walter for hurting an innocent little boy but in terms of the effect on Jesse, he probably saved his life (again).

Or his manipulating Jesse into breaking up with Andrea?

I don?t see how Walter is culpable for that decision or that it wasn?t the correct decision to make. We?ve seen how Walter?s marriage was ultimately destroyed because he lied to Skyler and kept secrets from her and I think he was correct that if Jesse wanted to stay with Andrea, he?d have to come clean with her. If Jesse wasn?t willing to do that, then his days with Andrea were numbered as well. Also a drug addict probably shouldn?t be in a long-term relationship with a drug dealer who is also an addict as well and breaking up with her was probably for the best.

Or his passive killing of Jane?

Jane OD?d and even though Walter may have accidentally pushed her on her side when he was trying to revive Jesse, legally and morally he wasn?t culpable for her death. There is no general duty to render aid the proximate cause of Jane?s death was her illegal drug use. Also considering her bright idea to shoot up all of the heroin that they had in the home before ?getting clean? tomorrow (yeah right), we can probably put chalk this up again in the ?Walter saves Jesse from himself? category.

@thorleywinston

What gives you the impression that Gus was gunning for Jesse at the end of season 4? By then it seemed that there was a mutual respect between Gus, Jesse and Mike… Especially after the whole cartel take-down. Jesse had essentially saved both Gus and Mike’s lives, since Mike was probably too ‘out-of-commission’ to actually get Gus to the doctor with his gunshot wound.

It was only through Walt’s manipulation of Jesse that made Jesse ‘realize’ the threat Gus held. But it was disingenuous. Gus only cared about getting Walt out of the picture because he was proving to be much more trouble and much more dangerous than he was worth… Which is why he only took Walt to the desert to threaten.

And as far as ‘saving Jesse from himself’, I’d say Mike is probably the one that did that. While Walt was being a scared-ass recluse, Jesse was falling further and further into drug-use and depression. It was only after Mike (and to a degree, Gus) started involving him in more activities to keep him clean.

As for breaking it off with Andrea… I agree that it could arguably be for the best. It could have also been Walt trying to save Jesse from falling into a situation like Walt has with his wife. But it was, undeniably, manipulative. And based on all the other manipulation of Jesse this season, I really don’t know why we should consider this anything but a selfish act on Walt’s part… regardless of whether or not it’s a good thing in the end.

And as far as Jane… I do think Walt is MORALLY culpable. Perhaps not LEGALLY. Now… if he had merely accidentally rolled her over while shaking Jesse awake and then left without knowing she would or did OD… Then I would agree that he was morally culpable. But the fact that he did shake her onto her back… and then actively WATCHED her choke on her own vomit, THAT’S when he became morally culpable, in my opinion.

It would be arguable if he had only done 1 of those things, but doing both the inadvertent roll-over PLUS watching her die is when it was clearly his decision.

What gives you the impression that Gus was gunning for Jesse at the end of season 4?

The fact that he sent people to kidnap Jesse, knock him unconscious with an electric cattle prod, and force him to cook at gunpoint.

Gus did all of those things AFTER the Cartel-takedown which shows me that at the end, he regarded Jesse as little better than a slave.

I was a little off with my time-frame. However, this did occur AFTER Jesse had teamed up with Walt to take out Gus and after Jesse refused to come in to cook while Brock was in the hospital, causing Tyrus to call Gus into the hospital himself…

Which seems to have triggered Gus’ suspicion that Jesse was in cahoots with Walt (considering he clearly suspected something was up with his car when he left the hospital) after he discussed the Brock situation with Jesse. I suspect Gus may have also suspected that Walt was actually framing Gus to manipulate Jesse… But maybe he hadn’t figured it out that far. But clearly, he suspected that the trip to the hospital was ruse when he refrained from returning to his car after talking to Jesse.

Additionally, Gus was in dire need of more product. While Walt fired, Jesse was his only cook and he was refusing to come in. Gus had to do SOMETHING to maintain his empire.

Hon

Honestly, I had forgotten about Gus chaining Jessie to his work. I think Doriss excusses for Gus mitagate that a bit in that Gus did reasonably fear for his life from Jessie at that point, as he could no longer trust him.

No, Guss need was not a legitamet excusse for forcing Jessie to work. However neither was Walts need to live sufficient a reason to have Jessie kill Gale.

It is late and I am on our tiny phone. I will get back later.